Legislature(2011 - 2012)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/07/2012 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB146 | |
| SB175 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 146 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 175 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 146-SNOW CLASSIC
1:35:11 PM
CHAIR EGAN announced consideration of SB 146.
1:36:39 PM
SENATOR DAVIS joined the committee.
1:38:36 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL, sponsor of SB 146, said that this measure would
establish a snow classic like the Nenana Ice Classic only in
reverse; instead of melting ice as a gaming activity this would
measure snow fall at a specific location on Mount Alyeska and
people would guess how much snow is there. This is in addition
to charitable gaming, which would benefit the Four Valleys
Community School.
At ease from 1:38:36 p.m. to 1:39:20 p.m.
1:40:55 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL explained that the Anchorage School District
used to have a program called community schools that used school
buildings in the evening and volunteer educators; it was a
wonderful program. Now the community schools program continues
to exist only in the community of Girdwood where Four Valleys
Community School runs the education program. The Community of
Girdwood has a lot of athletes, but they also have a lot of
young people going to college and the proceeds of this classic
would go to scholarships for them. The bill just inserts "snow
classics" as an option for charitable gaming; language in
Section 4 makes it very specific to Four Valleys Community
School.
CHAIR EGAN objected for a sectional analysis.
1:41:59 PM
LINDSAY WILLIAMS, staff to Senator Giessel, explained that
section 1 adds "snow classic" to the existing list of games of
chance and skill that can be permitted by the Department of
Revenue. Section 2 adds "snow classics" to the existing
definition of activity for the purposes of AS 05.15.115(c),
which limits how permittees can contract with operators. Section
3 adds "snow classic" to the existing list of activities that
can be licensed under AS 05.15 Games of Chance and Contests of
Skill. Section 4 defines and describes "snow classic."
1:42:59 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if the Mount Alyeska Snow Classic
currently exists and if so, for how long.
MS. WILLIAMS answered there currently isn't a Mount Alyeska Snow
Classic; this legislation would start one.
SENATOR MENARD said this bill would just benefit the Four
Valleys Community School and she wanted to allow other
communities to do the same thing without passing another law.
MS. WILLIAMS replied that would be a policy call for the
legislature to make. She said that Four Valleys Community
Schools asked Senator Giessel to introduce this legislation. She
added that a couple of games of chance are open to an unlimited
number of participants; for example the Crane Classic, the Rain
Classic and others.
SENATOR MENARD said she was struggling with the role of
government getting involved in non-profits that benefit one
group and not the other.
MS. WILLIAMS responded that the sponsor would be open to those
discussions.
SENATOR GIESSEL said absolutely and that she also wanted to hear
from the folks on line who administer the program about some
possible constraints.
1:47:05 PM
At ease from 1:47:05 to 1:47:28 p.m.
1:47:50 PM
REBECCA REICHLIN, Chair, Advisory Board, Four Valleys Community
School, Girdwood, said the board is in full support of SB 146.
She explained that Four Valleys Community School had been the
primary source of education, recreation and cultural
opportunities for the community members of all ages in Girdwood,
Indian and Bird Creek and Portage Valley since 1981. They serve
approximately 6,800 participants and have 700 volunteers on an
annual basis. As an organization they have had a long and stable
history of providing quality programs for the community.
1:50:30 PM
She said she has worked with community schools in one form or
another for 23 years. The program provides year-round recreation
opportunities and is a model for programs like it. They provide
cross country running, fall trail running, indoor soccer,
downhill and Nordic skiing, gymnastics, outdoor soccer,
softball, baseball, wrestling and more for youth and adults.
They offer more than 250 classes annually; the adult programs
range from recreating, to cooking, sewing and to fine arts and
crafts.
Since 1984, Four Valleys has administered public funds awarded
to it by the Girdwood Board of Supervisors. These monies all go
to provide direct services for the community. To help with the
funding, they have established collaborations and partnerships
with local businesses and non-profits and private groups to
provide the full spectrum of services the community seeks. They
have lots of volunteers who contribute their time and support in
a wide range of activities.
1:52:20 PM
MS. REICHLIN said even though they work very hard to make their
funding work on an annual basis, they still need to request
yearly grant funds from the Girdwood Board of Supervisors and
have a previous history of utilizing gaming activities that the
community supported to raise funds. Years ago they had a very
successful Gold Rush Monte Carlo Night that raised substantial
funds, but when the gaming regulations changed they weren't able
to hold that event again. She said they have used pull tabs,
bingo night and raffles; they also understand gaming regulations
and reporting requirements.
She said SB 146 would allow Four Valleys Community School to
control their own financial destiny. The Snow Classic would
allow them to raise funds to support their mission, would allow
them to utilize other resources beyond the community to support
their services. It would eliminate dependence on property tax
dollars through GVOS grants and would help the school to meet
its goal of self-sufficiency. SB 146 does not require new gaming
regulations, but expands on what is already enacted. It would
enable Four Valleys Community School to help itself.
1:53:59 PM
DIANNA HIIBNER, Ski Area General Manager, Alyeska Resort,
Girdwood, said she also represented Hotel Alyeska and the
Alyeska Ski Area, and they all fully support SB 146. She said
that Alyeska Resort has been involved with the concept of the
Alyeska Snow Classic since the beginning and Four Valleys
Community School is a great program that is fully supported by
the community. She said snow is a big deal in Girdwood and they
feel the Snow Classic could be a fun and popular event.
1:55:48 PM
LYNNE DORAN, Secretary, Advisory Board, Four Valleys Community
School, said she had lived in Girdwood since 1995. Basically she
wanted to let them know how the Classic would be structured. It
would be a split-the-pot event similar to the Nenana Ice
Classic. A measuring device would be put on Mount Alyeska
separate from the resort and tickets would be sold for a
specific period of time when people could guess how much snow
had accumulated on the mountain at their location. Selling
tickets would have a cut off time and there would be a wait and
see approach to build up anticipation. They would have a big
announcement of how much snow there was - again similar to the
Nenana Ice Classic - and after tallying the ticket information
they would announce the winners who would split the pot with
Four Valleys Community School after administrative costs.
She said DOR's gaming supervisor could tell them why Four
Valleys is specifically asking for the Alyeska Snow Classic and
the steps an organization has to go through to be able to have a
classic versus just running an event on their own.
SENATOR PASKVAN said the fiscal note indicates that the revenue
is a maximum of $1,000 and asked where the Tax Division got that
figure.
1:57:50 PM
JEFF PRATHER, Gaming Supervisor, Department of Revenue, said the
$1,000 is an estimate of what the department would get if Four
Valleys gets this permit and grossed $100,000. The tax in gaming
is 1 percent of the profit.
SENATOR MENARD asked if he anticipated they would make $100,000
the first year.
MR. PRATHER replied that he had no idea what this event would
bring in and used that as a way to prepare the fiscal note.
SENATOR MENARD asked if there is other history of when other
classics started up, like the Nenana Ice Classic.
MR. PRATHER said he didn't know how the Nenana Ice Classic
fiscal note was written. He added that classics typically do not
bring in a lot of money.
SENATOR DAVIS said it would be good to hear the history about
the Nenana Classic and commented that she didn't think this
classic would make that much in the first year.
MR. PRATHER said he would get that information.
2:01:13 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL said it would be fun to find out about the
Nenana Ice Classic and that it was started in 1917 by some
railroad workers and there probably wasn't a gaming law then.
She asked Mr. Prather to illuminate why this is so specific to
Four Valleys. Why does gaming law specify who the operator of
these various things can be in some cases?
MR. PRATHER answered that over time the legislature has chosen
to allow certain activities for certain tax payers. These
classics are generally limited to 1 to 6 permittees; three are
open to everyone.
2:02:11 PM
SENATOR MENARD asked if classics are proprietary, because that
is how the law was set up with the Gaming Board.
MR. PRATHER said that was correct.
CHAIR EGAN asked how many of these permits have been issued now.
MR. PRATHER answered 14.
SENATOR PASKVAN said it's his general understanding that this
discussion arose out of the greater discussion about
legalization of gambling in Alaska and the question is whether
historical contests would be recognized or not. Hence his
reluctance to raise the general concept of legalization of
gambling, but he wanted to know how this fits into any
historical context. The universe of permittees is very discrete
now and this might use a different standard for legalizing
gambling.
MR. PRATHER replied this is a guessing game and guessing games
aren't allowed in the gaming statutes except for classics, which
were established by the legislature and are under its purview.
That is what he told Four Valleys when they asked.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked what the 14 classics are. He suspected
they went back in the history of Alaska for quite some time.
MR. PRATHER replied that he would get the list for him.
SENATOR GIESSEL noted that the Cabbage Classic is limited to the
Palmer Rotary, the Canned Salmon Classic is limited to the
Petersburg Chamber, the Deep Freeze Classic is limited to the
Delta Chamber, the Goose Classic is limited to the Creamer's
Field in Fairbanks, the Snow Goose Classic on the Kenai River
Flats and there are several ice classics in McGrath and Big
Lake; and the Greater Juneau Chamber has the King Salmon
Classic. Homer has the Mercury Classic. There is a pretty long
list in statute.
2:05:57 PM
SENATOR MENARD said she wanted a number of snow classics,
because Alaska gets a lot of snow as well as ice.
MR. PRATHER said three classics are generic for anyone to use:
the Crane Classic, the Rain Classic and the Snow Machine
Classic.
SENATOR MENARD asked if he thought it reasonable for anyone to
apply for a snow classic.
MR. PRATHER answered that it has been done before, but it would
have to be less specific.
SENATOR PASKVAN said the first sentence of section 3 seems to
incorporate all the types of gambling activities including all
the types of definitions of classics in saying that the activity
may not be licensed unless it was in existence before January 1,
1959. He asked if that was the general beginning of the
discussion of who may have been permitted under the statute as
it currently reads.
2:08:29 PM
MR. PRATHER replied there must have been a classic available at
that time. He assumed that the Nenana Ice Classic was out there
prior to statehood.
SENATOR PASKVAN said two other sentences, one dealing with the
Snow Machine Classic and the other with an Animal Classic, seem
to address the need for long term duration. He didn't see any
other criteria to allow something that hasn't existed for quite
some time if not from the time of statehood in current AS
05.015.180(b).
MR. PRATHER said he was correct.
2:09:53 PM
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Assistant Reviser of Statutes, Legislative
Legal Department, Legislative Affairs Agency, Alaska State
Legislature, said traditionally the legislature has been very
proprietary in setting up these classics. A lot of people who
sponsor them don't want a whole lot of competition. He was not
saying that is occurring here, but this the traditional way for
someone to request a new classic. When the Cabbage Classic was
added a few years ago, that bill specifically provided that the
Palmer Chamber of Commerce could be the only sponsor of it; and
the contest is about the weighted of the big cabbage to the
Palmer Fair each year. There are a lot of classics with
reference to Senator Paskvan's question about section 3.
He said when the legislature started regulating gaming after
statehood, gambling was outlawed (even in the territorial days).
Gaming was allowed for charitable purposes. So, the legislature
at that time said if didn't exist before 1959 you couldn't do it
except in certain enumerated circumstances. Since that time, a
whole bunch of other classics have been added; about 10 of the
14 Mr. Prather mentioned were added in last 20-some years. He
wasn't sure they were all still operating. For example, the King
Salmon Classic in Juneau operated for a year or two in the 1990s
and then gave up. It's still on the books and the Juneau Chamber
is still the only one that can do it.
2:12:38 PM
MR. LUCKHAUPT said a lot of effort from volunteer help goes into
putting these on and it takes a while for them to catch on with
the public. People must be prepared to go through some lean
years to make it work. He said the Nenana Ice Classic sustains
itself now, but at least four or five other ice classics have
been allowed over the years - and he hasn't heard anything about
them. It's all up to the legislature as to whether they want it
to be for a specific thing or not. Every area of the state has
its own specific things and a lot of times classics are based
upon a particular geological feature: the Mount Marathon Race
Classic, for example, or the Goose Classic in Creamer's Field.
They had a little problem with the animal classics in reference
to the other item in section 3. The State Fair had a wheel that
turns with a hamster crawling into a hole and people bet on what
color the hole will be. Someone raised the issue of gambling.
People thought it had been going on since statehood, but there
was no actual proof to use the 1959 exception. So, then the idea
became they had records of it operating since 2002 and everybody
loves to do it. That is why the specific exemption was crafted
by the legislature.
MR. LUCKHAUPT described another game that is allowed because it
had been used in another state where people would bet on where a
cow in a field would leave his "road apple." They've done that
in Palmer, too, he said.
2:16:05 PM
SENATOR MENARD said she appreciated him coming up before them.
They are deliberating a long time because the state has so many
non-profits and she didn't think 14 classics was a lot.
MR. LUCKHAUPT responded that it's totally within the
legislature's discretion to do what it wants.
2:17:46 PM
SENATOR DAVIS complimented the Four Valleys Community School
saying if any group could make this work that group could.
CHAIR EGAN held SB 146.